Speaker A: Hey, therapist, welcome back to the podcast. I have a guest for you today. So Krista Harrison is a friend and a colleague who I’ve known for quite a while. We’ve done different coaching programs together, and they’re a therapist and a coach who specializes in work with queer healers. So I would love you to really listen to this conversation because it talks about when we’re that messy middle transitioning from doing less therapy to doing more coaching, which a lot of people might have questions on. So certainly listen for that. And also some unique challenges to working with the LGBTQ population and living in the south. Things that really were eye opening to me, things that I didn’t get from their perspective about what they’re facing in their clinical work and the difficult choices. And I really see Krista as a trailblazer and a community advocate, and it was just an interesting conversation that we had. So I would love you to listen in to this wonderful provider.
Speaker B: This is the Finding Joy After Burnout podcast, a podcast for therapists and mental health professionals. Together, we unravel Burnout and find our road back to Joy. Here’s your host, Dr. Jen Blanchett.
Speaker A: Welcome to the Joy After Burnout podcast. It’s so great to have you. How are you?
Speaker C: Thank you, Jen. It’s great to be here. I’m good. I’m glad to be talking to yes.
Speaker A: Yes, I know we were chatting a little bit before, and we probably should have gotten that whole conversation, but it’s just great to connect because it’s been too long and we need to make this a regular is yes. So I think you have so many wonderful nuggets for people to hear about your story and what’s going on with you in your practice and your life, but I’m just going to have you start out with talking about your Burnout story. And I know there’s multiple things you want to share, but maybe what’s showing up for you now in your practice?
Speaker C: Yeah, I can start with just saying it’s overwhelming. I’m really overwhelmed by all of my career choices, and I’m in a place where I know a lot of pieces are important, but it’s like having lots of sticky notes everywhere, but without having any kind of flow. I don’t have the streamlined base to pull from or it feels that way.
Speaker A: I’m just smiling because I feel the same way in many regards. Yes. So what’s showing up for you now? That seems like some I know we on the pre interview, we talked about those kind of three prongs for you. I’m like four. Three, okay. Three prongs, which you have, like, volunteering work that’s really taking a lot of your energy therapy, your therapy practice, and then coaching offerings. So maybe do you want to jump into that and just kind of share what’s going on in those different spheres?
Speaker C: Sure. I have had my private practice for about five years now, and I am so grateful. I built it in a way that was for me, and it wasn’t patterned after anybody else’s needs. And so it has served me really well, and I’m very grateful. I have some amazing clients. I work with individual adults primarily, and I work with a lot of people who’ve had trauma PTSD. And it’s really important for me to hold space for the queer community, trans community. It’s important for me, like many, to honor the individual journey. And I love getting to sit there with each person and be part of their journey, challenge them gently and let them make their decisions and witness their changes in growth and excitement and harm and not harm, but hurt, hurt from harm that people go through. So I do have a private practice, and it is, I would say, part time. And I’ve even scaled back. I had to create it part time because of how hard life was for me whenever I created it back around. When did it all started? Well, 2018. I knew I wanted to create something that I could handle, and my physical ability was less than a lot of others. I just didn’t have the ability to give the full standard productivity. I had to fight against the productivity model, and now I have.
Speaker A: You came from agency work where you.
Speaker C: Were in I came from agency work, and there was times where I was working at three different places and just seeing as many people as I could, trying to pay the bills.
Speaker A: Do you remember what those expectations were like clinical, hour wise at the agency or what you were doing that felt too much?
Speaker C: I’ve worked at different ones, but they all did have different productivity models. And I remember feeling really stressed out when I left and really glad I was leaving, but I don’t know if I remember the specifics.
Speaker A: Okay, yeah, some people do. I remember when I was working agency work, I had a 30 hours expectation if I wanted vacation, that is.
Speaker C: Got you. Of course. Right. Yeah.
Speaker A: If I wanted to work without vacation, I guess I could have done 26. Interesting. I know.
Speaker C: Got you. Yes. I don’t remember. There was some nuance to it, but I can’t remember exactly what the expectations were there, but I had migraines on a regular basis. My body was a lot larger than it is now, and I didn’t feel like I had energy. Whenever I get home to live my life, it just felt like I was just sucked. I did love clients, I did love working with people, but it just took everything I had.
Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the people I’ve talked to and myself that I remember. I used to try to cram my days into having seven or eight clients in one day so I could have more days off. And the aftermath of that is just I was totally fried. Mentally, honestly.
Speaker C: Yeah. One time I decided I was going to be responsible and earn the money for a vacation so I could take my kiddo on a vacation by taking on extra night groups. So I took them on so I could earn the money and pay for it. And I was really proud of myself. I’m still proud of myself on that level for being the financially responsible in that moment because it’s not always been something that I’m thinking about or prioritizing, but yeah, it was hustle, right? Hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle mode and too much. It’s like go until you fall apart. Yeah. So I had the private practice, which is part time, and I also have a coaching business. Kind of sounds strange to say that, but it’s true. It feels different for me to say that.
Speaker A: I think a lot of therapists would agree like that it feels weird or even before I started offering some coaching, I was just like, coaches. I’m like, oh yeah, that’s great.
Speaker C: Right. I do appreciate the whole coaching concept and I do understand there’s all kinds of layers to it, but yeah, I am leaning towards a coaching business and kind of stepping further away from therapy and more into supporting people outside of the therapy office. And one way I did that, that just kind of came organically was to host a retreat, healing for Queer Healers. And so through that process, I loved that. The first retreat was just amazing and I knew I just wanted to keep offering it and maybe do it annually or biannually. And I still would say I want to do it annually or maybe biannually, I haven’t decided. So it will either come up once or twice a year as of now and I did expand on that this year to add a virtual retreat to the potential offerings and yeah, then the third prong you said was the volunteer, like queer providers and allies networking. A friend and I have co founded that here in our area in Oklahoma City. And we have different people who come from mostly our area, mostly in state, but we have a Facebook group and we have quite a few people who are involved. And then we meet once a month. We have a luncheon and network and we’re trying to cultivate community and find out who our safe referral sources know, extend that out. All felt pretty isolated a lot, I think. I think that’s kind of universal is craving for community and that includes the queer professionals here.
Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you for doing that work that you’re doing on a volunteer basis. It’s really great work.
Speaker C: I’m really grateful to be doing that. Awesome. Quite where it fits exactly as I balance all these things. Sorry, my chair is being noisy.
Speaker A: Oh, it’s okay, you’re fine. Yeah.
Speaker C: So those are the three things that are priorities for my career.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I think one thing you said in the pre interview was if there’s one thing that I could let go, it would be the therapy practice. And I know there’s a lot there to unpack, but maybe talk to me about some of that, what’s coming up there.
Speaker C: Yeah. So I went through a coaching program with Schustler. It was very, very much two programs.
Speaker A: With Annie, and they are awesome.
Speaker C: Yes, highly recommend, and I will go through more. But in doing that, in the beginning of 2023, I just started thinking more about the coaching and doing a virtual retreat. And so as I was trying to develop that and think about that, I just felt like I was thinking along those lines. So I’d go to therapy with clients, and my mindset was so different. I was like, I’m having trouble flipping from one brain to another for where I’m at. And so I was like, I just feel like I need to just go fully one direction so I know what my pocket is to stay in. And I haven’t really worked through that yet. But I did think, yeah, I think I might be working towards working myself out of therapy. And that was even before all the extra layers of legislation and other factors came in.
Speaker A: Yeah. And for people not living in Oklahoma, specifically, what specific things have you seen as a provider, a queer provider in Oklahoma? What’s been coming up for you and what’s been happening in the legislation and in your community?
Speaker C: There have been many attacks. I think I can’t remember the numbers, I want to say over 26, don’t quote me on the numbers, but attacks of the queer community in legislation. So really vilifying anybody who is LGBT at all, really hardcore against trans people. They were able to get rid of all affirming care for kids in the state of Oklahoma. So if anybody was on any hormone blockers, they don’t get to continue that. They tried to outlaw insurance, paying it for adults. They tried to make drag shows a felony in certain I didn’t realize. Oh my gosh, felony. Yes. They proposed things that would if I remember right, there were some things that were going to make providers felons. If we even spoke of affirming care to refer somebody to someone out of state, it was ridiculous. And I don’t have a list of the things, so I don’t want to.
Speaker A: Sampling of the multiple sampling.
Speaker C: But it was an onslaught of bill after bill after bill after bill. And I know it’s happened in multiple states, and I know there’s a bigger play here than just Oklahoma, but we did experience have personally, I have lots of clients. I have clients who are moving out of state because they do not feel safe here anymore. And they do not feel like Oklahoma. It’s potentially a place to walk around and not just be hurt just for existing and being trans or queer. I know of a lot of providers and colleagues who are making their plans to leave. I know way more that are leaving, that are staying. I know people who are human rights activists who have been trying to fight for just people to be able to exist are on their way out. It’s really overwhelming. It’s really scary. The stay or go question is something that’s coming up in provider meetings too, not just in the sessions.
Speaker A: I was taken aback that you told me that your whole practice has changed essentially because of this, because a lot of your clients have decided to leave. And then your clinical caseload is very different. So that might have required you to shift and change and pivot on financially. How many clients do I need to kind of, yes, my financial needs and my practice going or to have cash flow and all of that. Just thinking from a business lens, even if and that for me is all kind of scarcity and fear comes up, it takes me back to the early pandemic when clients didn’t come. And I know it’s for a different reason, of course. So I could certainly understand that maybe was a little fear inducing for you to have that happen and all these other layers that are happening at the same time.
Speaker C: Definitely, I think it was majorly fear inducing and more so on survival. Just I have somebody in my close chosen family, close to the child’s stepsibling, half sibling. Half sibling is trans. And so the idea of getting out of Oklahoma just so somebody’s not dead in a couple of years because of we know the suicide rates when people don’t get affirming care. And we also know that ACL is used fighting it. We know that this is a big thing, but it’s like the fear is definitely there. The fear is there of all of it. I had a client talk about it, go from talking about processing normal financial concerns for them to what do I need when I leave? Because it’s survival. Now, if I can do a one bedroom, if I could just have a microwave and a mini fridge, what are the essentials? Let me strip it back down to what do I have to have to survive? This is somebody who has established a career in a home and a neighborhood and vehicles. And they’re like, if I do this, what can I strip it down to? And so as you’re talking about the business side of it, it’s very true, but there’s also this element of, yeah, can I go ahead and build this business that I intended to? Can I continue the business I have? What does it look like? Because my clients are more important than the money, right? And what’s also true is I still have to pay my bills. So finances are scary. Business is scary. The people that I care about are trying to decide what kind of refugee status they feel makes sense, right? Do I file papers for Canada. Do I file papers for this other place? Do I uproot and leave everything I know and hope I can sustain a living with east coast, west coast prices? When I’m used to living in oklahoma.
Speaker A: With less overhead, I’m in maine. So our state is pretty expensive compared to oklahoma or one of the down south states, and they just tend to be a little less expensive.
Speaker C: Yeah. So it really isn’t feasible to do it without just really stripping down and starting over and living. I mean, survival. Right. That building onto what? I’ve already created a lot of people here. They’ve already had to shift gears. They’re already losing their friends, their family, their community, and they don’t feel like it’s very much of a choice. So that’s scary on lots of levels.
Speaker A: Yes. So then for you, I could understand the overwhelm more. So after we’ve been and our talk before about yes, I have all these business ideas, and there’s also a book that you’ve talked about which I think can dovetail into the coaching therapy kind of conversation. But what is a way that I can serve this community and this population and also sustain myself, my family? Because I hear what you’re telling me about the activism you’re doing, which the therapy work, I feel like is as well, all that you’re doing. You are really committed to this community.
Speaker C: Absolutely.
Speaker A: And it’s wonderful to see. And so I can totally understand that overwhelm can make us get to a place where we shut down because we just can’t do anymore. But to think about how can you have the business sustain you so you can continue this work, so you can do more, so you can maybe even affect more change at a larger level, potentially even.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: So I did have a couple of ideas. I mean, I know you talked about your book, so previously I’ll give the listeners Some background. So previously, I know a lot about your business because we went through the same program together, and I’ve even looked up pictures of the retreat center that you have previously run, retreat. And it just looks like a wonderful place just to find healing. But you did develop some curriculum there when you were going through those experiences with the retreat, like delivering that retreat basics that you want to put back into the book. Am I wrong?
Speaker C: I would say I’m still working on curriculum. I would say that I built the retreat itself and kept very limited things. So I tried to limit any I don’t think I brought any education to it. I don’t think I brought curriculum to it.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: I think I created and curated an experience, and it did include community and actually meeting together. So there was an element of coming together, having some mindfulness moments, doing some journal prompts, and then meeting and talking. So there was personal work. So I think we could label that in a way as curriculum. Right. Or at least that’s kind of what I brought from therapists me. What felt good. Does that make sense? Yeah, the wording is and so when.
Speaker A: You were talking about a book, you were saying you were going to have some of those prompts or some of the things that you maybe some of them that you used in the retreat setting. Is that correct?
Speaker C: Or on a different I think my brain is trying to pull what those are that.
Speaker A: I wanted to let you know about a free resource that I’ve developed for you, introducing the Before You Quit guide. This is a free resource I wish I had when I was in the throes of burnout. So it’s going to include focused journal props on areas of struggle and burnout in clinical practice, identification of depleting experiences in your practice and in your life. And then we’ll hopefully identify some actionable items for change. If you’re feeling depleted in your role, please give yourself the gift of slowing down and assessing what’s really going on with your career turmoil. As a therapist, I know it can be confusing, isolating, and totally overwhelming. So grab your freebie the link for that is in the show notes. Thanks you.
Speaker C: It’s like I don’t have them outlined in a way that I have sticky notes. I have boards. I have lots of them. I’m trying to come back down to where, what are the core things that I want it to include for when I do the virtual retreats? Because I’ll do those in most likely eight sessions. And so it’ll be the same kind of concept of what is the core stuff that I want to give to the people who come to those coachings.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: I’m really thinking something along the lines of including that in the book, but I’m still whittling down. It’s like sticky notes everywhere. Like all these ideas. I do have what I wrote on my website that is included. I have things listed yeah.
Speaker A: From the virtual retreat. I think I’ve seen that sales page. Maybe I can go back and look at that. Yeah, I should have looked at that beforehand.
Speaker C: So I do have them feedback on that. My brain tells me I don’t have them.
Speaker A: But you do. You have essentially an outline.
Speaker C: So my issue is I have multiple outlines, and I am dying to get one core that I can branch off for any of the rest of these. For just my own brain. Yes, for now. Do you think pivots are fine? Growing is fine, but do you think.
Speaker A: Like, when you run the virtual retreat because it will happen. I am manifesting it for you. That outline would kind of then be that guideline that you have those different topics that you’re going to teach on for each week or each session.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Was that your plan that you said thought that, hey, I’m going to have this this week from that outline, and then I’ll develop whatever I want to teach on. Even if there’s the experiential component, a mindfulness exercise or something else in there.
Speaker C: Yeah. I think that’s where I continue to be. That’s my barrier. Okay. Is actually creating that in a way that I feel like it’s something of substance that’s specific and clear. I feel good about my ability to create the container. I feel amazing about the retreat that happened, and it’s happened twice.
Speaker A: And I’ve offered you sound so confident about that when you’ve talked about retreats. When I’ve heard you talk about retreats, you’re just like, I got it. And so I wonder if this piece just seems I wonder what this piece is about for you.
Speaker C: Yeah. The retreat itself. You’re right. I do. I’m confident that if people show up that I’ve got the weekend retreat, I’ve got I want to and I’ve created this space to bridge it to be an online option that’s similar to coaching. Right. Zoom. But it’s bringing the retreat essence. So the idea is to bring that essence. So, like, to walk people through calming their nervous system and connecting to themselves for a moment, unplugging and connecting to each other and increasing some community specifics of what I speak about continue to be like, I don’t feel clear. I can fill that space. I’ve done groups. I’m a therapist. I can fill that space and make it useful. But like, to put it in a book or to put it on a paper and follow it yeah. To outline it still isn’t clear.
Speaker A: Yeah. And I just think that ability for you to hold space and to run that experience is so strong that I feel like the experience will lead you there as you continue to go, like, each week. This is landing. This feels really connected. This feels really great for this particular group. Does that make sense?
Speaker C: It does.
Speaker A: And then I think another thing you talked about was running this one on one. Could I have that outline and plan to do that with someone? I know our default as therapist is to show up and be like, so what are we talking about today? I mean, I know I’m guilty of this too, right? We’re just like moldable. But to bring someone through an experience is something you’re so gifted at and that you’ve done that really well. And to start the one on one with hopes to get to that group experience that group to kind of test it out is one choice. It doesn’t mean you have to do that.
Speaker C: Yeah, that makes sense. I do have the AHA, moments from experiences, not from sitting and thinking about what they will be.
Speaker A: I mean, that’s what’s sitting with me as I sit with you and hear the work that you want to do, the work that you hope to do, this group, because so much of what you’re talking about is that people need that space to feel safe and someone who myself has been a trauma therapist for many years. The presence of that other person is the key component of the work. It’s the co regulation. That’s what I found anyway, in my time as a therapist. I don’t know if that’s a different thing that you’re looking for with your experience and your group.
Speaker C: No, I think that’s just I mean.
Speaker A: That resonates strongly and then how you do that is going to be in the crystal way. Your own delivery of that is what people are attracted to because you’re in their community, because you know what they’re going through. Because there’s a layer of like, I don’t have to explain all the **** that I’ve been going through because of the world that we live in. There’s already something that’s dropping when they come to see you because it’s not you’re like, oh, I know, I know exactly what you’re talking about.
Speaker C: Right. Yeah. So it’s interesting because it makes sense. Like, the coaching thing seems simple in so many ways.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Especially coming from a therapy space. It’s like, I do know how to hold space. And if holding space is the core of it, it doesn’t seem like it should be a very difficult transition. But I’m definitely getting caught in my head.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: And still going.
Speaker A: Yeah. And it’s okay to show up messy, I think, too. Also maybe a barrier that I’m hearing, too, which I’m guilty of. I overthink everything and it holds me back from everything. So I guess I can see myself in that because I do it all the time. I’m like, I ideate on this podcast, for example, for months and months and months, and now here I am recording episodes. But it’s hard. It’s hard to feel like it’s vulnerable work you’re doing. This is vulnerable conversation that we’re having to feel like, okay, I’m confident in this. But that holding space thing, I think is one of the key components. So another choice I thought about when I thought of your particular program is not having curriculum. Like the one to one can be just, I’m showing up and the coaching is going to focus on if you’re talking about a business owner, a queer healer, or practitioner, then I’m here to support you in that work. And doing the advocacy work that you’ve done, I think is an asset to that particular population to know, like, hey, actually, this is what I’m facing in my state and these are the things that we’ve done. This is the things that we’ve implemented. So even from that perspective, just to share those experiences that you’ve been having in your advocacy work and your volunteerism, I think, can be an asset too, to organizations, to individuals, or just to have that kind of, hey, this is what I’m going through. I need some coaching on how to navigate my career or life because I need to leave my state or I need to change my job because of the attacks on my community. The attacks me as a person for living in my body, for example.
Speaker C: Yeah, just for living in my body.
Speaker A: Just for living in my body today is what I’m being attacked for.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker A: I think just getting support from that and that’s not therapy. That’s not a mental health condition, right? Yeah. It’s not in the DSM, right. Even though people want to think it’s a mental health condition, it’s not. So I think you doing this work can the one to one, I think, could be also it doesn’t have to have a curriculum and then you can work to that curriculum. Do you see what I’m saying? You can work towards having that. Or someone could go through that experience of whatever it is, of nervous system regulation, for example, and that’s your core curriculum for that. But maybe you also have like, business consulting or career consulting type in the realm of just showing up for them and whatever they need. Anyway, I’m just throwing ideas. I don’t know how it’s landing.
Speaker C: I like it more sticky notes in my brain, but also very helpful in the sense of letting it evolve.
Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I like both ideas. I just feel like to get you started, how would people have all this interest? So maybe part of it is going back to those people that seem really interested. What experience online would you want? Is it the wording, is it the messaging? Because I don’t know if people hearing retreat thinks, like, online retreat after COVID, forget it. But if it’s like, we’re going to focus on regulating your nervous system in eight weeks and it’s led by a queer healer, it’s going to be for other queer healers. This is a safe space. So it’s a different they might sign up for that, but maybe the retreat virtually is kind of that landed with me a little bit. I’m like, would I sign up for virtual retreat right now? Probably not because of COVID and that’s the only reason for me. But I would go to an in person, likely, because that sounds great.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: But they might do a different online experience. So it could be going back to your people and asking them, what would you want to have? What would you want to sign up for?
Speaker C: Yeah. I’ve even had clients kind of use me as a business consultant, professionals, young professionals. And recently, one even mentioned to me talking about something that they had experienced in a positive way and a colleague of theirs wanting to hire oh, I need to hire that person to talk to all of my employees. And teach them that thing to do for themselves, for the customer service experience or whatever it was that that client felt like they received. They were coming to me to say, would you be interested in doing some strange little bit of business consultation? I do like the idea of marketing the. One on one coaching. That is not niched.
Speaker A: Yeah. Would it be niche for people in the queer community?
Speaker C: I think what leads me there is, like, the clients that I have, not everybody is a Queer Healer. Not everyone.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: So I would want it to still be open to them. A lot of them are queer, or at least adjacent. But still under the umbrella, though.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: When I look at business and streamlining.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I know I’ve given you a lot to think about, about different ideas.
Speaker C: Yes. And I’m going to enjoy listening to this and writing them down again and playing with them.
Speaker A: Yeah. And I’ll give you the recording. And I’d like to follow up. I mean, I know you.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: So I’d like to just follow up and see where are you thinking? But I love your idea for the retreat for Queer Healers, and if that’s maybe a different mean, I think we’ve talked to them, like, oh, you should come up to Maine because I would work here.
Speaker C: Right. The idea of different locations is on the consideration list. Yeah. So we’ll see where that evolves to. But it does feel important to keep it.
Speaker A: Yes, but it’s like what I think going back to those people that have said, I’m so interested, but something stopped them. What’s stopping them? And maybe trying to help understand that piece better, to see what’s the program they need.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: You don’t know.
Speaker C: Yeah. It’s interesting because whenever I actually launched that offering, it really felt like the energy was all there yeah. Whenever I developed it. But right as I launched it is when the legislative attacks all hit, and so my own energy was diverted, and so I still followed through with offering it. But my feeling whenever nobody signed up was just of gratitude. I was like because it just felt so out of alignment with what was happening to have to actually follow through with it in that moment.
Speaker A: Yeah. Because people are if you think about safety, they’re in immediate like, I’m in threat mode, so I’m not in a mode to feel vulnerable, to feel open, to feel like I could explore my nervous system. Well, my nervous system needs to stay in sympathetic. It needs to stay in fight or flight because I feel threatened. So that makes total sense that maybe they didn’t feel I can be open. I can kind of open this up because I’m in survival mode.
Speaker C: Yeah. Very much like 2020, it threw survival mode into the mix. And the idea of the virtual retreat came from there was a lot of interest, at least nationally, even a little bit outside of the US. But there was a lot of interest from coast to coast about the retreat. But fear of coming to Oklahoma.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker C: I don’t think the spring helped that. I don’t think the legislative stuff helped that. Probably not. But there was a lot of interest in that experience, I will consider.
Speaker A: Who.
Speaker C: To ask to follow through.
Speaker A: Yeah, I just think it could be interesting, an interesting conversation. I could talk with you forever, but I have to jump off for today. So if people want to connect with you about the good work you’re doing, how can they connect with you?
Speaker C: The website Healingforqueeerhealers.com is a place they can find out about the actual physical retreat or the virtual retreats or if they just would like to be on my email list. I do send a weekly email out with just the intention of hopefully bringing some sort of support and information. And I do resources at times.
Speaker A: Great newsletter. Should sign up for it.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker A: It is awesome. You’re doing good.
Speaker C: Thank you. And as I do evolve and have more to offer to nurture the people that I care about, that’s where you’d find out. So if you want to know yes.
Speaker A: Awesome. Great.
Speaker C: Thank you, Jen. I appreciate all of your time and help and holding space for me to wrap my brain around some of these things.
Speaker A: It’s my pleasure. Awesome. You take care.
Speaker C: Thanks. You too.
Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Joy After Burnout podcast. Be the first to hear new episodes by following the podcast in your podcast player. This is an informational podcast only. Any information expressed by the host or guest is not substitute for legal, medical or financial advice.
